As you accompany Pip on his journey to become a gentleman,you may experience some challenges. I will post several discussion questions to help you reflect and interact with others on your reading of Great Expectations.
Tuesday, December 20, 2011
Chapters 20-27
What is your impression of London and its colorful characters? How does it compare to Pip's life on the marshes?
As stated in the details and discriptions of London and the marshes there is a large difference between the two places. Lifestyle in the marshes was much different in a way that Pip was surrounded by "common" people, with a gloomy, damp and somewhat dark setting. Life in London is much different, much brighter, an exciting lifestyle of much knowledge. The effect London has on him slowly fades his old ways at the marshes and is teaching him to be more of a gentlemen, for example he is learning to live on his own, go to dinner with men themselves and, his rise in status . . etc.(Monica Palucci)
London's characters are great, and better in many ways than the Marshes characters. Everyone in the marshes had to work towards the country theme of the Marshes. In London, though, they shine. The harangued Matthew Pocket, the loving Wemmick, even imperious Jaggers bring more to the table than those in the Marshes did. In the marshes, everyone was equal, or close to it, with little exception. It was simple to small to have strong social classes. Because of this, no one looks down on Joe for being so common except for the isolated Havishams. If someone tried to act like Jaggers, they'd be run out of town. In London, though, the people on the top of the ladder feel free to treat those below them like dirt, and Pip was never at the bottom of that kind of situation, excepting his childhood, which just translated as he disliked those people. It's changing Pip, and not for the better. If he can learn from Wemmick, more power to him, but I can see him becoming Jaggers just as easily, dominating and despising those below him. ~Oliver Stein
London represents a complete contrast to Kent. The change from the calm marshes of Pip's old life is stampeded with the industrious, lively, booming area that London is. They do share in common, however, some of the types of characters (although London has a lot more): snobs. London is filled with high end, upper-class men who condescend towards the poor (i.e. Jaggers relationship with the people who wait for him on the sidewalk and Drummle with his superiority and callous) and look down upon them. They're not all bad, though. Wemmicks, when he's in his 'business mode,' is dreary and monotonous, but when he comes to his 'Castle' and Aged Parent he fully changes into a fun, good spirited man. As Oliver said before, the people of Kent are all equal, but in London there's a huge diversity. Unfortunately, London is sort of leaving a "50/50" impression, I feel, towards Pip. He has potential to be fun and fairly well rounded, like Wemmicks and Herbert (who is actually a perfect example-setter for him, being poor and humbled, but a gentleman nonetheless), but he might succumb to the harshness and cruelty that's exemplified by Jaggers character... Already, there are hints of it (like when he accuses Biddy as being jealous and envious of Pip) and I fear that Pip may peer into that side more so than the 'good' side.
Life in the marshes definitely differs from London. In Kent, people were relatively the same. Nobody was really in a “different” social class. While people like Mrs. Joe and Mr.Joe may seem poor to the people of London, in the marshes they really weren’t considered “poor” necessarily. They were just like any ordinary people there, besides the expectancy of Mrs. Havisham. Furthermore, the Marshers didn’t have the most intelligent people. Most people there didn’t get the opportunity to be educated, which led them to have a lack of knowledge. However, in London the citizens are quite intelligent. Take Mr.Jaggers for example, his job is basically to defend for the government. In doing so he comes through with powerful, yet purposeful points. Many people wouldn’t be able to pursue this career as it takes knowledge, which people in Kent lack. In addition, in London there’re more opportunities like; going to the theater, walking around town. In contrast to London, where Pip used to live, there wasn’t much to do but go to the pub as he did with Joe at times. While there, he was exposed to a convict and some other drunk people. In contrast to his old way of life, he now his good influences surrounding him, encouraging him to be a gentleman, like Herbert. Overall, the “great expectations of London” have led Pip to be educated, but on the downside, he has turned into a totally different person toward his loved ones. The explanation for his behavior may be through observing the aggressive Mr.Jaggers, Pip’s guardian. My feeling, is that the more time he spends with him, the less respect he will have for other people in his “old” life.
London is full of more "uncommon" intelligent people. Where as Kent... wasn't. In the Marshes there wasn't such a different between the social classes, i mean there were but not as great as it is in London. For example the way Jaggers talked to those who awaited his arrival on the street, he would only to those who payed their bills, and even then he would use a condescending tone.Life In the marshes was more casual as in not as great things to do. But in London there is much more to do such as going to the theatre, walking around, going out to dinner (such as pia said). Pip is surrounded by more intelligent successful people "gentlemen". Pip is changing, and it looks like not in the best way. He might become more like Jaggers as in he started to treat Joe and the others like less of people because he just got his new fortune. I hope that Herbert can help him stay humble, because it appears to me that Herbert is one of the only good kind of gentlemen in London.
Pips lifestyle in London is very different compared to his past lifestyle living in the marshes. London mostly consists of well educated and wealthy people, while the marshes hold lower and middle class citizens and people who are unable to have a proper education. In London, Pip is surrounded by intelligent people such as Herbert, Mr. Pocket, Mr. Wemmick and Mr. Jaggers. Also, London seems to be a much safer environment for Pip because he is surrounded by the people that I mentioned previously. However, when Pip was living in the marshes there was much danger taking place with convicts on the loose, for instance. From Pip being in London for quite some time you can tell by how much of a gentlemen he has become just by the way he speaks. Pip has been influenced by his new upper class lifestyle and by the people that surround him. -Dayna Weintraub
Life in the marshes differs vastly from life in London for Pip. London, due to its immense spread of bright colors that are filled with life, excitment and variety causes Pip to feel inspired and rewarded. Sourounded by some of the richest and most ediquet in London allows Pip to have a proper education as a gentleman. London has changed Pip in many ways including the way he acts. Acting more mature and kind creates a way for Pip to fulfill his gentleman duties. Altough life in London is magnificent and rewarding, Pip did come fromt he Marshes which affect his personality signifigantly. Life on the Marshes was bland and mainly consisted of being surrounded by poor people who don't have very good manners. This reflected off Pip as shown by the way he treated his sister. Growing up in such an uninspirational place caused Pip not to have such big dreams. Through Pip's gentleman training Pip slowly begins to not practice the skills he learned on the Marshes due to them being over ruled by the new tricks he is learning in London. Like Monica said, Pip is learning to live on his own, interact with more inteligent people and how to be successfull. All of these tackticks Pip is learning in London are life long lessons which Pip will carry out through the rest of his life. -Kerry Schwartz
life in the marshes is dark and dreary. The people have to worry about the excaped convicts, they have to do all of the "dirty," labour-intensive jobs. In london it is bright and cheery. The people have glamorous jobs and don't have to do much hard work because they own slaves. Everything is much more proper and formal in London than in the marshes.
As Pip is becoming a gentleman, his life is changing too. First, he is ashamed of his life in the marshes. He can't stand to be seen in public with Joe. When Joe came to visit him, he was embarrased to be around him and didn't even pretend to be excited to see him. Joe was once Pip's idol. Pip wanted to grow up to be Joe's apprentice and be just like Joe. Also, he used to love his house in the marshes because Joe convinced him to like it and he was satisfied with the life he had. Now that he has Great expectaions, he can't stand to think of his old life. I doubt that he will ever go back to visit his sister in his old house. Finally, Pip used to be a simplistic guy who didn't need much to make him happy. Now that he has come into money, he is relying more and more on superficial things to make him happy.
Like Lauren said, London is filled with more "uncommon" people, and these people seem to be more exciting than the people back in Pip's hometown. They have a better life style than the lifestyle on the marshes. This is because, like Victoria said, no one had to worry about escaped convicts or being assaulted by these dangerous criminals. Also everyone in London seems to be much wealthier than the people on the marshes. As Pip becomes a gentlemen he is becoming more and more ashamed of what he came from. For example, when Joe came to visit Pip in London he was thankful that Joe wasn't staying at a hotel where he would run into Drummle. He was embarrassed that Drummle would see Joe and think less of Pip. Also, he is starting to have less and less respect for his loved ones who he once looked up to and cherished.
London is much more loud and exciting than the quiet marshes that Pip is used to. There are all different kinds of people where in the marshes, Pip kind if knows everyone and is used to everything and everyone being similar. Pip is both amazed but not pleased with how crowded it is. London is the opposite of quiet common Kent. In Kent there are people like Biddy and Joe who are what Pip would think of as common, but they don't care about social class and are happy with where they are with their lives. But the people in London like Mr. Jagger seem to be very concerned with social class and are snobs. The Pocket family as very concerned with social class, particularly Mrs. Pocket. Pip goes through a big change from the quiet familiar marshes or Kent to the bustling and crowded streets of London.
As Pip becomes a gentleman, he is developing a very snobby attitude and is ungrateful for all that Joe and biddy have done for him and taught him. He loses the respect that he once had for Joe. When he was around the city, he didn't want Joe with him because he thought Joe would be too common and he didn't want Joe to embarrass him. He doesn't think that Kent and the people around him were good enough for him.
I love the london characters. From the bipolar (in terms of personality) clerk Wemmick, to the unpleasant Bentley, each of the characters had a life of their own, masterfully played by their puppet master, Dickens. Kudos to him. London is much more formal and proper than the rural marshes, allowing Pip to learn etiquette from Herbert Pocket. On this road to becoming a gentleman, Pip becomes more and more detached from his roots in Kent, no longer looking up to Joe with treating him as a friend. Pip's thinly veiled hostility when Joe comes to visit, stemming from a paranoid belief that Joe will disapprove of his lifestyle, is an example of Pip's polishing his self-critical personality and losing his friend at the same time.
As stated in the details and discriptions of London and the marshes there is a large difference between the two places. Lifestyle in the marshes was much different in a way that Pip was surrounded by "common" people, with a gloomy, damp and somewhat dark setting. Life in London is much different, much brighter, an exciting lifestyle of much knowledge. The effect London has on him slowly fades his old ways at the marshes and is teaching him to be more of a gentlemen, for example he is learning to live on his own, go to dinner with men themselves and, his rise in status . . etc.(Monica Palucci)
ReplyDeleteLondon's characters are great, and better in many ways than the Marshes characters. Everyone in the marshes had to work towards the country theme of the Marshes. In London, though, they shine. The harangued Matthew Pocket, the loving Wemmick, even imperious Jaggers bring more to the table than those in the Marshes did.
ReplyDeleteIn the marshes, everyone was equal, or close to it, with little exception. It was simple to small to have strong social classes. Because of this, no one looks down on Joe for being so common except for the isolated Havishams. If someone tried to act like Jaggers, they'd be run out of town. In London, though, the people on the top of the ladder feel free to treat those below them like dirt, and Pip was never at the bottom of that kind of situation, excepting his childhood, which just translated as he disliked those people. It's changing Pip, and not for the better. If he can learn from Wemmick, more power to him, but I can see him becoming Jaggers just as easily, dominating and despising those below him.
~Oliver Stein
London represents a complete contrast to Kent. The change from the calm marshes of Pip's old life is stampeded with the industrious, lively, booming area that London is. They do share in common, however, some of the types of characters (although London has a lot more): snobs. London is filled with high end, upper-class men who condescend towards the poor (i.e. Jaggers relationship with the people who wait for him on the sidewalk and Drummle with his superiority and callous) and look down upon them. They're not all bad, though. Wemmicks, when he's in his 'business mode,' is dreary and monotonous, but when he comes to his 'Castle' and Aged Parent he fully changes into a fun, good spirited man. As Oliver said before, the people of Kent are all equal, but in London there's a huge diversity. Unfortunately, London is sort of leaving a "50/50" impression, I feel, towards Pip. He has potential to be fun and fairly well rounded, like Wemmicks and Herbert (who is actually a perfect example-setter for him, being poor and humbled, but a gentleman nonetheless), but he might succumb to the harshness and cruelty that's exemplified by Jaggers character... Already, there are hints of it (like when he accuses Biddy as being jealous and envious of Pip) and I fear that Pip may peer into that side more so than the 'good' side.
ReplyDeleteLife in the marshes definitely differs from London. In Kent, people were relatively the same. Nobody was really in a “different” social class. While people like Mrs. Joe and Mr.Joe may seem poor to the people of London, in the marshes they really weren’t considered “poor” necessarily. They were just like any ordinary people there, besides the expectancy of Mrs. Havisham. Furthermore, the Marshers didn’t have the most intelligent people. Most people there didn’t get the opportunity to be educated, which led them to have a lack of knowledge. However, in London the citizens are quite intelligent. Take Mr.Jaggers for example, his job is basically to defend for the government. In doing so he comes through with powerful, yet purposeful points. Many people wouldn’t be able to pursue this career as it takes knowledge, which people in Kent lack. In addition, in London there’re more opportunities like; going to the theater, walking around town. In contrast to London, where Pip used to live, there wasn’t much to do but go to the pub as he did with Joe at times. While there, he was exposed to a convict and some other drunk people. In contrast to his old way of life, he now his good influences surrounding him, encouraging him to be a gentleman, like Herbert. Overall, the “great expectations of London” have led Pip to be educated, but on the downside, he has turned into a totally different person toward his loved ones. The explanation for his behavior may be through observing the aggressive Mr.Jaggers, Pip’s guardian. My feeling, is that the more time he spends with him, the less respect he will have for other people in his “old” life.
ReplyDeleteLondon is full of more "uncommon" intelligent people. Where as Kent... wasn't. In the Marshes there wasn't such a different between the social classes, i mean there were but not as great as it is in London. For example the way Jaggers talked to those who awaited his arrival on the street, he would only to those who payed their bills, and even then he would use a condescending tone.Life In the marshes was more casual as in not as great things to do. But in London there is much more to do such as going to the theatre, walking around, going out to dinner (such as pia said). Pip is surrounded by more intelligent successful people "gentlemen". Pip is changing, and it looks like not in the best way. He might become more like Jaggers as in he started to treat Joe and the others like less of people because he just got his new fortune. I hope that Herbert can help him stay humble, because it appears to me that Herbert is one of the only good kind of gentlemen in London.
ReplyDeletePips lifestyle in London is very different compared to his past lifestyle living in the marshes. London mostly consists of well educated and wealthy people, while the marshes hold lower and middle class citizens and people who are unable to have a proper education. In London, Pip is surrounded by intelligent people such as Herbert, Mr. Pocket, Mr. Wemmick and Mr. Jaggers. Also, London seems to be a much safer environment for Pip because he is surrounded by the people that I mentioned previously. However, when Pip was living in the marshes there was much danger taking place with convicts on the loose, for instance. From Pip being in London for quite some time you can tell by how much of a gentlemen he has become just by the way he speaks. Pip has been influenced by his new upper class lifestyle and by the people that surround him.
ReplyDelete-Dayna Weintraub
Life in the marshes differs vastly from life in London for Pip. London, due to its immense spread of bright colors that are filled with life, excitment and variety causes Pip to feel inspired and rewarded. Sourounded by some of the richest and most ediquet in London allows Pip to have a proper education as a gentleman. London has changed Pip in many ways including the way he acts. Acting more mature and kind creates a way for Pip to fulfill his gentleman duties. Altough life in London is magnificent and rewarding, Pip did come fromt he Marshes which affect his personality signifigantly. Life on the Marshes was bland and mainly consisted of being surrounded by poor people who don't have very good manners. This reflected off Pip as shown by the way he treated his sister. Growing up in such an uninspirational place caused Pip not to have such big dreams. Through Pip's gentleman training Pip slowly begins to not practice the skills he learned on the Marshes due to them being over ruled by the new tricks he is learning in London. Like Monica said, Pip is learning to live on his own, interact with more inteligent people and how to be successfull. All of these tackticks Pip is learning in London are life long lessons which Pip will carry out through the rest of his life.
ReplyDelete-Kerry Schwartz
life in the marshes is dark and dreary. The people have to worry about the excaped convicts, they have to do all of the "dirty," labour-intensive jobs. In london it is bright and cheery. The people have glamorous jobs and don't have to do much hard work because they own slaves. Everything is much more proper and formal in London than in the marshes.
ReplyDeleteAs Pip is becoming a gentleman, his life is changing too. First, he is ashamed of his life in the marshes. He can't stand to be seen in public with Joe. When Joe came to visit him, he was embarrased to be around him and didn't even pretend to be excited to see him. Joe was once Pip's idol. Pip wanted to grow up to be Joe's apprentice and be just like Joe. Also, he used to love his house in the marshes because Joe convinced him to like it and he was satisfied with the life he had. Now that he has Great expectaions, he can't stand to think of his old life. I doubt that he will ever go back to visit his sister in his old house. Finally, Pip used to be a simplistic guy who didn't need much to make him happy. Now that he has come into money, he is relying more and more on superficial things to make him happy.
Like Lauren said, London is filled with more "uncommon" people, and these people seem to be more exciting than the people back in Pip's hometown. They have a better life style than the lifestyle on the marshes. This is because, like Victoria said, no one had to worry about escaped convicts or being assaulted by these dangerous criminals. Also everyone in London seems to be much wealthier than the people on the marshes.
ReplyDeleteAs Pip becomes a gentlemen he is becoming more and more ashamed of what he came from. For example, when Joe came to visit Pip in London he was thankful that Joe wasn't staying at a hotel where he would run into Drummle. He was embarrassed that Drummle would see Joe and think less of Pip. Also, he is starting to have less and less respect for his loved ones who he once looked up to and cherished.
London is much more loud and exciting than the quiet marshes that Pip is used to. There are all different kinds of people where in the marshes, Pip kind if knows everyone and is used to everything and everyone being similar. Pip is both amazed but not pleased with how crowded it is. London is the opposite of quiet common Kent. In Kent there are people like Biddy and Joe who are what Pip would think of as common, but they don't care about social class and are happy with where they are with their lives. But the people in London like Mr. Jagger seem to be very concerned with social class and are snobs. The Pocket family as very concerned with social class, particularly Mrs. Pocket. Pip goes through a big change from the quiet familiar marshes or Kent to the bustling and crowded streets of London.
ReplyDeleteAs Pip becomes a gentleman, he is developing a very snobby attitude and is ungrateful for all that Joe and biddy have done for him and taught him. He loses the respect that he once had for Joe. When he was around the city, he didn't want Joe with him because he thought Joe would be too common and he didn't want Joe to embarrass him. He doesn't think that Kent and the people around him were good enough for him.
I love the london characters. From the bipolar (in terms of personality) clerk Wemmick, to the unpleasant Bentley, each of the characters had a life of their own, masterfully played by their puppet master, Dickens. Kudos to him. London is much more formal and proper than the rural marshes, allowing Pip to learn etiquette from Herbert Pocket.
ReplyDeleteOn this road to becoming a gentleman, Pip becomes more and more detached from his roots in Kent, no longer looking up to Joe with treating him as a friend. Pip's thinly veiled hostility when Joe comes to visit, stemming from a paranoid belief that Joe will disapprove of his lifestyle, is an example of Pip's polishing his self-critical personality and losing his friend at the same time.